Government Says No to Pro-Gay Church

Posted: August 13, 2007 in Freedom of Speech

I guess that doesn’t really come as a surprise for a government like ours, who cannot even take understand basic freedom of expression let alone something different or beyond the basic norms of its culture. Since I wrote about the Pro-Gay church that Ou Yang(<”Full Interview with Ou Yang”>)plans, I have spoken to a lot of different people concerning how they felt obviously those who were Christians mostly had an opposing view to the idea as compared as non-Christians. But roughly among the people I spoke to(this definitely doesn’t represent the whole community of the blogosphere or even Malaysia) all felt that it was a personal choice and the individual right to express their belief.

<“Malaysiakini”> reported today that Tengku Adnan objected towards such a proposal to be carried. on. As a Christian and a believer of freedom of expression, a no-no to discrimination in any manner is a tough call to make regarding a stand in this matter. But personally, I belief that gays or non-gays should not be segregated or marginalized and shying away by building their own sanctuary to worship in. Some might say such a move will bring more gays comfortable in worshiping as they will not be judged etc. I belief that gays and non-gays shouldn’t be separated in such a sense, I do belief that god loves all despite their inclinations but I do understand why such a proposal has come up. If you read my last post on this matter, it is rather clear towards the set-up of this sort of church in the country.

Being a gay in country like Malaysia must not be easy, as people are not as open-minded thus and when it comes to places of worship people who run these places pastors, priest (who are merely humans I understand) are not prepared or equipped to handle any such situations thus causing people such as this to feel isolated and marginalized so much so that they need to break away and create an avenue for themselves to worship god. Rather than Pro-Gay churches I belief churches that are like the<”Real Love Ministry”>are better approaches towards this whole issue but to emphasis again this issue is a very sticky issue, very sensitive and has to be dealt with carefully. It would be fatal and ignorant of us to fail to see the core of the issue and sweep it away without addressing the issue at hand. Why did the proposal to start up a Pro-Gay church began firstly? We have to look there first I belief before any solutions can be made if we are really worried about the welfare of our “rakyat” regardless of their inclination.

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Comments
  1. kroni2u says:

    well said!

  2. YukiChoe says:

    Anyway, I decided to dish out all my questions out for Rev Ou Yang to answer. And I believe a lot of you would like to know more about him, his life, his stance, his ministry and his beliefs. So I am opening up this topic into an interview. If there are any of you out there who wish to ask him anything at all, please e-mail to me at choe.vivian@gmail.com, stating your name or group, where you are from and contacts. Annonymous people would not be entertained. I have my own life to live, so please only ask important questions. If you wish to have a private conversation with him, you can also e-mail to me, and I will pass the word to him perhaps have him contact you personally. God Bless.

  3. YukiChoe says:

    May I have the opportunity to ask a highly honest question. All these while you have only been hearing from a fundamentalist group like Real Love Ministry on what is a ‘pro-gay stance’ and all of RLM’s self created sciences.

    Instead of hearing from a second party, have you ever asked from Christian homosexual affirming groups what exactly is the pro-gay stance? As far as my experience goes with them, there is no such thing as a pro-gay stance.

    More dialogue is needed to understand this church forsaken community, especially when homosexuality is not as ‘unnatural’ as it seems, except from prejudicial stances.

    I have with me tons of authoritive sources, even from current ex-gay leaders such as Alan Chambers of Exodus International, and former ex-gay leaders to back the stats and facts up.

    And what if all the Christian gay community in Malaysia wants is totally different from what RLM is projecting? Perhaps in fairness and non partiality, should you ask for a second opinion? Or as a ministry you choose to let prejudice masked in faith get in the way?

    I fear the answer from you is only going to be another show of double standard and discrimination. I hope you prove me wrong. Thank you.

  4. cherwith says:

    Well Yuki if you have already made up your mind and think that everyone has double standards and discriminate then what is there left for me to say? What I have written in my post are my views on the matter based on different sources of information that I have received since this issue came about. I do not expect you to agree with my views, you are entitled to belief otherwise if that is so. In a country like Malaysia, you should understand that it is highly unlikely to happen (being very realistic about things) especially since the government has shown strong resistance. I for one do not discriminate I have presented views not only of the ex-gay stance but also the pro-gay stance,it is up to the readers and society alike to decide for themselves what they belief is right or wrong neither I nor you can force ideas onto them. But if we look back at what the pastor said concerning this new church, he did not mean for it to be a pro-gay church in particular but rather just a church that welcomed all without any discrimination imposed on them.Correct me if I’m wrong..

  5. YukiChoe says:

    All I am saying is that instead of placing them under the care of a ministry like RLM that runs on dogma than on science, perhaps it is wise to place them under the care of a qualified mental health professional? Transformational ministries such as RLM are medically unsound (www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/facts.pdf). All options should be presented to the ‘patient’, especially when most of the ‘suffering’ is caused by stigma and prejudice. Confusion is aplenty when religion is mixed into the homosexual reality and science cocktail.

    My hope is since you know this is very sticky issue, very sensitive and has to be dealt with carefully, that you do not place RLM as an option. It may work only for those whose homosexuality is socially constructed from a heterosexual birth. But it has dire consequences indeed for those who are born homosexual.

    “The potential risks of ‘reparative therapy’ are great, including depression, anxiety and self-destructive behavior, since therapist alignment with societal prejudices against homosexuality may reinforce self-hatred already experienced by the patient.” – APA.

    If I am boring you with all these medical stuff I apologize. : ) Thank you for your time.

  6. cherwith says:

    I said that RLM is a better approach in my opinion, as they are one of the more open-minded avenues compared to the others in Malaysia as to my knowledge. I belief that this people can make them their own minds after all they are pretty much like any one of us, we do not need to place them or put them under anything or anywhere. They can decide for themselves, if they find RLM not suitable they can always look for better options, if they find RLM good, then good for them. Why do you say we need to put them under mental health professionals? As far as I know, this people are mentally unstable or crazy is just that there have different sexual orientations. Why are you classifying them as patients? Do you think they are sick? RLM as far as I know doesn’t claim itself to be a health professional or any such thing but rather as an avenue to reach out to the marginalized communities.
    I belief that it is a good option, I don’t see how this is an issue. As I said they can still choose not to go, there are not forced to do anything by my suggestions. You seem to dislike RLM and make this an issue of RLM rather than about the pro-gay church approach which I blogged about. Do you have an issue with RLM or something?

  7. YukiChoe says:

    I meant that if RLM was an option, I suggest it is better to place those who wish to change their orientation in the care of people from the medical field who know what they are doing, not a group based on dogma. RLM supports change of orientation. Hope you read the link I posted.

    Because the pro-gay word was never used in Malaysia until RLM brought it out. If we are to call gays looking for equality in marriage and life with heterosexuals as progays, then are we pro-straights to deny them? In the end, like you said it is up to he individual.

    My point is, everyone should have a place in Malaysia, but one group should not impose their values on another. When a group like RLM tells you that they ‘reach out’ to the marginalized groups (in the context here meaning, homosexuals); do they tell you what they do with them? They expect to ‘change’ the orientation. They consider homosexuals ‘gender confused’.

    I wonder if you had been researching on these ex-gay ministries, because thus far it is known worldwide they have done more harm than good. RLM is of little importance to me. How homosexuals live as themselves without stigma and prejudice that religious groups imposed upon them is more important.

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